Equity Calls Us to Listen, Understand, Respect, Respond – Stebbins (amendment to Article II, which will be placed on the final agenda)

General Assembly 2024 Article II Amendments
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While being in favor of Wheeler’s equity amendment, I still do not support this one as I do not wish to covenant to listen, understand, respect and respond.

I strongly prefer A2’s existing language over this amendment and
I feel like how I want to covenant is better covered in the following parts of A2.

For example under generosity in A2 “We will create and nurture sustainable relationships of care and respect, mutuality and justice. We will work to repair harm and damaged relationships.”

And in justice section "We work to be diverse multicultural Beloved Communities where all thrive. We covenant to dismantle racism and all forms of systemic oppression. "

And in generosity “Our generosity connects us to one another in relationships of interdependence and mutuality.”

And inclusion’s "Systems of power, privilege, and oppression have traditionally created barriers for persons and groups with particular identities, ages, abilities, and histories. We pledge to replace such barriers with ever-widening circles of solidarity and mutual respect. We strive to be an Association of congregations that truly welcome all persons who share our values. We commit to being an Association of congregations that empowers and enhances everyone’s participation, especially those with historically marginalized identities. "

I’ve explained previously about listening bits above especially the burden some white UUs put on BIPOC UUs.

Giving specific examples: I had a white UU congregational BOT physically block me from exiting the church to tell me how I often seemed angry and they went onto tell me that I really need to listen to them more and should have dinner with them and then I would understand they weren’t racist.

I had another BOT a different time explain to me and describe to me in detail what he felt were my racialized features as to why he couldn’t tell me apart from the one other mixed race BIPOC UU in attendance and when I told him that sounded racist, he then sent me a very long letter explaining how I needed to listen and understand his pain because me saying that was racist really hurt him.

Most recently I had a white UU without asking my consent launch into a monologue about their hurt feelings because some months previously at a meeting I had mentioned something being about race for me.

So here’s the thing I do need to ignore things, ignore people if I didn’t I wouldn’t still be sticking around in these rooms. I need to ignore, not react, not respond and move away from hurtful racist, sexist, ableist, homophobic things all the time - and these things happen in UUs spaces, UU communities. This ignoring (not extending my labor to listen, not contorting myself to look for good intent, not pouring out my energy and investing time to respond thoughtfully, and not doing their job to educate themselves) while I’m being hurt and harmed is actual survival and act of self love.

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Thanks for participating in the conversation, Leilani! I will re-read it to make sure I haven’t missed anything.

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Hello again @LeilaniDavenberry and others considering the Stebbins Amendment,

In re-reading some of the comments above, I can see how different perspectives simply will result in different votes on this Amendment, and I respect that. I can try to understand those perspectives and respond with my own.

If I ask you to listen to my perspective, I know it is your right to disagree with my perspective – or even to not listen to it at all! All I can do is encourage you to follow your heart and mind – and do what you believe is best for you and your Beloved community.

As I prepare for GA, I find myself writing more and more poetry. The “poem” below is one of my responses to re-reading some of the comments on this page. I offer it to you.

IF WE DECLARE

If we declare
that every person is inherently worthy
and has the right to flourish
with dignity, love, and compassion . . .

If we declare that,
then what do we covenant –
what do we promise to one another
in our “spiritual discipline of love”?

If we covenant
to use our “attention and wisdom”
in the effort to ensure the right
of every person to flourish,

Can we imagine
the shape that attention and wisdom
might take for us
in our spiritual discipline of Love?

Maybe
paying attention includes listening.
Maybe wisdom Includes trying to understand, respect,
then appropriately respond in ways that prevent and address inequities.

Maybe in order to appropriately respond -
to “use our time and $ wisely”
and ultimately build and sustain accessible and inclusive communities
where every person can flourish -

Equity first “calls us
to listen, understand, and respect”
every person (ourselves and others)
as we practice our spiritual discipline of Love.

Then maybe
we can decide
how to appropriately
“respond.”

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While I was happy with the commission’s wording (the acknowledgement that worth had such a negative historical connotation), I find the Steebins amendment valuable. One of the things this Article2 revision did was say ‘this is what you believe, now what are you going to do about it?’ and listening and responding makes it possible for us to do something. If neither amendment passes, I hope people can say they will just keep to find ways to building our beloved community. and I hope we don’t get so tied up in worrying if we’ve been heard, we throw the baby out with the bath water. The commission did some good, hard work and maybe we’ll get to perfect someday.

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I believe a central theme of the revised Article II is accountability. Each value is followed by a covenant which, to my reading, is as spirtually close to the material word “contract” that I can conjure.

I hope my fellow delegates and their congregations are also excited about and inspired by the vital character of accountability in this revision. And I am inclined to be in favor of the combination of the Stebbins/Wheeler amendments.

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I would benefit from hearing more from those who have been historically marginalized as to the equity amendments. I am inclined to be in favor of the Stebbins/Wheeler combination and admire the work they and their fellow congregations have coordinated to come to consensus.

At this late hour, before the Mini-Assembly tomorrow, I would ask the authors and their allies to demonstrate the alignment with evidence that relieves Leilan Dayenberry’s concern about giving room to harmful exchange.

I don’t think that the sentence: “Equity calls us to listen, understand, respect, and respond to one another.” is attempting to create toxic space and the author says so … Equity calls us to do all of these things within community. So there still may be instances in which we have to ask someone to leave. We are “called,” not “forced” to listen, understand, respect and respond. I can see the value to both the concern from Dayenberry and the healthy possibility in Stebbins amendment.

That said. I would like to see Wheeler go forward for certain as it is universally well received and I will wait to hear more about including Stebbins’ amendment as well. Thank you all for your efforts.

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Thank you @Steward, for your comment and your invitation to folks who support the Amendment to provide relief for concerns. I appreciate you quoting one of my earlier posts. I will work on an additional post that summarizes and frames the issues in a larger context. In the mean-time, of course, folks are welcome to review what has already been posted.

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@Steward Thanks for your thoughtful and reflective comment. I find it so helpful when people lay out their thoughts in this way!

Everyone–I’m having to step away from all this for a while, but I wish you all the best of luck at GA!

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Thank you for sharing this. I haven’t read or heard anything as yet that changes my opinion on this amendment “covenant to listen…” I have the same concerns and having given my numerous examples of white UUs demanding my attention and more of my listening (to racial gaslighting) above and even as we prepare for GA, I’m seeing this very concern play out in ways that have literally strengthen my opposition to this amendment. I much prefer the wording in A2.

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Hi again @Steward and @LeilaniDavenberry,
I appreciate Stewards request for more input from those who have been historically marginalized. And Leilani, would you be willing to share how “this very concern” has played out?

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Where I have seen my exact concern with this play out is in discussion spaces like moderated UU facebook groups with racial gaslighting there and in moderated UU listening circles this year. And specifically abusive and racist unrelenting demands of (some) white UUs for access to me, for me to listen/read their words even though I had repeatedly written that I would use the tools of ignore/block/hide repeatedly.

These actions of some white UUs in recent conversations about A2 have literally strengthen my opposition to this amendment. I do not wish covenant to listen to these exact kinds of things and I strongly prefer A2’s description of generosity, interdependence and inclusion about how we treat each other over this amendment.

Previous posts of my explaining why I do wish to covenant to listen and given specific examples of white UUs in UU spaces

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@LeilaniDavenberry, thanks for clarifying. I wanted to find out if there was some way that you felt something said in this discussion thread had been objectionable. I hope that you have found our discussions not disagreeable, even though we have disagreed. :slight_smile:

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There has been a suggestion in this discussion that people that had the experience of being encouraged to “listen, understand, respect and respond” have had negative experiences with this approach. Here is my attempt at one example of how this often can be problematic, with the caveat that this is a generalization of similar conversations that were very real:
Elizabeth (who is white): Well I just don’t think we should have to have everything translated into different languages all the time, I mean, English is our official language, and if you’re going to come here, you have to learn English.
Clara (who is BIPOC): um….Actually English isn’t the official language of the United States. There are lots of languages spoken in this country.
Elizabeth: Well maybe not “official” official, but you know what I mean. Think about how much expense this adds to our healthcare and government, when………….blah, blah, blah. I mean, at least make the effort, you’ve got years to learn it……”
Clara: My grandmother came to be with her family. She tried very hard to learn English but found it very difficult. Have you ever tried to learn a new language as an adult?
Elizabeth: Well then, why can’t her family just translate for her? I mean, I don’t understand half the medical gobbledygook they tell me either…………………blah, blah, blah,……on and on.
Clara: Okay, Elizabeth ( who just wants to get out of this hurtful conversation without inviting more harmful words disparaging her family.)
Elizabeth: (turning to new person who just joined conversation) What do you think about all these signs in other languages, Richard. Clara and I both agree that it’s …………

So, tell me again I’m called to “listen, understand, respect, and respond.” I can respect the person I’m interacting with, even while declining to do the rest. Especially when they keep repeating themselves because, they would probably insist, that I just don’t understand them.

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I am also seeing the lived experience in this threaad not fully appreciated. Forever “listening” and not changing behavior is seen in asking Leilani to restate what has been said and experienced. I step back from further support of the Stebbins portion of the Equity amendment, understanding the good intentions, but realizing in practice we need to stick with the A2 as is in this portion.

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Hi @Steward and @LeilaniDavenberry.

The world of social media certainly is difficult for me to navigate! Among other problems, I find it challenging to respond in a timely and clear way.

I feel I miscommunicated earlier. The question I was asking Leilani was to tell me about her experience IN THIS THREAD. She evidently interpreted me to be asking her to repeat experiences outside of this thread that I already knew about.

Does that clarify my behavior? Is there some way you still feel I have been “forever listening” and not changing behavior?

I can listen to Leilani’s pain and feel sad about it - and tell her that I do NOT expect her to listen to things that cause her pain. (Nor do I think the Amendment would make her covenant to that.)

I cannot change the value I hold in listening as an IDEAL, so I just have to disagree with Leilani - which I hope I have done in a civilized way. (She did “heart” my earlier response, but I don’t know that you can see that.)

As I have said earlier in my posts, equity calls us to listen in ways that help us prevent and address equity; it does not require us to listen to absolutely everything. When a person cries out in anger and uses hateful speech, we don’t have to listen long to understand that they are expressing anger and hate. We try to respect the person underneath that anger and hate – but we respect ourselves by doing what we need to protect ourselves. We respect them and ourselves by using our attention and wisdom to respond in ways that build and sustain accessible and inclusive communities - where all can thrive.

Listening, understanding, respecting, and responding are IDEALS for how we act with compassion. When faced with real-life situations that challenge us to reach our ideals, we can remember that “Listen” does NOT mean forever/ad nauseum; “Understand” does NOT mean only from the speaker’s perspective; “Respect” does NOT mean agree with the speaker; and “Respond” does NOT mean do exactly what the speaker wants you to do.

In fact, by “listening, understanding, and respecting,” we may find we are able to “respond” in ways which “confront powers of evil with justice, compassion, and the transforming power of love.”

That language is from the current 6 sources and is also echoed throughout the Proposed Revision.

I hope we can continue this conversation.

I continue to have the sense that “something is missing” from the Equity Value. Here’s the larger context I see:

The Equity Value already calls us to use our “attention” and “wisdom” in our communities. The Stebbins amendment provides a way to deepen our understanding of “attention” and “wisdom” and provide concrete means to achieve them for individuals within their communities.

This is important because it relates to why I think most of us joined UU and how we want to be treated as valued community members. We are here partly because we value our differences. We seek to understand and learn from each other. We respect every person no matter where we are in our spiritual journeys and no matter who we are as persons.

If and when we actively listen, understand, respect and respond to one another, we discover the needs of individuals and of congregations as a whole. Then we are all included in the search for solutions to prevent and address inequities.

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Sad. It sounds to me like Elizabeth (who is white) is NOT listening to Clara (who is BIPOC).

In this case, more listening by Clara will not be helpful, BUT she can use her understanding to call out the problems she sees in Elizabeth’s arguments and to seek folks to work with her in finding a way to "confront powers of evil with justice, compassion, and the transforming power of love.” That language is from the current 6 sources and is also echoed throughout the Proposed Revision.

“Listen” does NOT mean forever/ad nauseum; “Understand” does NOT mean only from the speaker’s perspective; “Respect” does NOT mean agree with the speaker; and “Respond” does NOT mean do exactly what the speaker wants you to do.

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While I appreciate the explaining you’re doing about how the covenanting to listen may be used by you and understood by you, it is not in the amendment.

I strongly prefer A2’s language about how we are to treat each other. I’m a BIPOC UU who has repeatedly given multiple explicit examples here in the this thread about my direct lived experience of white UUs weaponizing the kind of language in this amendment, to listen to their harmful speech. Other BIPOC UUs who I have spoken to, agree this amendment is not going to help us with equity in UUs spaces. I hope that you take in what that means, that amending the section on equity when BIPOC UUs are telling you that language has already harmed me in UU spaces.

Some of the language I prefer over this amendment.

…“Love is the power that holds us together and is at the center of our shared values. We are accountable to one another for doing the work of living our shared values through the spiritual discipline of Love…”

…“We will create and nurture sustainable relationships of care and respect, mutuality and justice. We will work to repair harm and damaged relationships…”

…“We embrace our differences and commonalities with Love, curiosity, and respect.”

…"Systems of power, privilege, and oppression have traditionally created barriers for persons and groups with particular identities, ages, abilities, and histories. We pledge to replace such barriers with ever-widening circles of solidarity and mutual respect… "

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Hi @LeilaniDavenberry, you have referred to those other parts of the Revision in the past, and I agree that they are powerful! I wish that the Equity Value had its own powerful words, words that capture what is specific to Equity.

It is clear that not everyone shares my understanding of “listening” - and I can imagine why marginalized folks in particular would see a danger in covenanting to listen, since as you point out, it has been weaponized against them.

(For some reason, it reminds me of how some in my congregation feel the word “Love” has been weaponized in their experience of Christianity.)

I cannot change how anyone sees the word “Love” or the word “Listen.” (And right now I don’t have the power to delete the word “Listen” from my Amendment. I wish I had had more time and foresight to get feedback on the wording before it was submitted. That’s my bad.)

So really, the rest of this post is just me being sad that I haven’t found some way to bridge the gap between what - for me - is missing in the Equity Value.

I wish that we had some beautiful words that worked for everyone, that were SPECIFIC to the Equity Value. I thought “listen, understand, respect, and respond” would work. If it doesn’t work for the majority of folks, then I want to UNDERSTAND what might work that would still meet (my selfish?) need:

I feel the need to tie what happens in communities with what happens for individuals, specifically in the context of Equity. Because for me, the first two sentences of the Equity Value do not hang together - they don’t FEEL together - without a third sentence. I ACHE for it.

I am glad that community and interdependence are being emphasized more in the Revision. But I also want that to be integrated with how we look at the individual.

Sorry, that’s me rambling.

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@ Kara, While I’m only in favor of Wheeler’s amendment, I really appreciate the effort you’ve put into explaining your intentions. And trust me should your amendment pass, I will look to your explanations as to how it might be interpreted or used so as to not be weaponized.

I hope you might consider putting together and editing your explanations in a summary or public shareable article so that it might be referenced when this discussion site closes. Thank you dialogues like this with UUs like you are rewarding and enriching even when we disagree.

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Thank you, @LeilaniDavenberry, for engaging with me long enough for me to improve my understanding of your position!

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