#486 | Kara Stebbins | compromise between the Proposed Revision and the Current Article II

[Poster1]

"Submission 486
Kara Stebbins
UUFMC (UU Fellowship of Madison County)

What is your suggestion or idea?

IDEA: “IS COMPROMISE POSSIBLE?” My idea for an Amendment is based on my understanding of the Commission’s Charge: “Enable us to be a relevant and powerful force for spiritual growth, healing and justice, now and into the future, while honoring our historic roots. Include the following: Love in action, All beings, the 8thPrinciple, and more and/or broader Sources.”

Can we use that summary as a way to look for a compromise between the Proposed Revision and the Current Article II? I hope we can, either during this GA or a future one.

It is easier to read the suggested Amendment first without editing marks, than below that, I will show the messy edits from the Current Article II. I didn’t have time, but I could also theoretically show specifically how it is different from the Proposed Revision. The ideas in this suggestion do not currently lend themselves to a Section-by-Section approach, but I could also attempt that if necessary.

Without Editing Marks:

Section C-2.1. Purposes. The Unitarian Universalist Association shall devote its resources to and exercise its organizational powers for religious, educational, and humanitarian purposes. The primary purpose of the Association is to serve the needs of its member congregations, organize new congregations, extend and strengthen Unitarian Universalist institutions and implement its principles. The Association fosters freedom of belief and actively supports its members to transform their beliefs into loving actions.

Section C-2.2. Principles and Covenants. We, the member congregations of the Unitarian Universalist Association, articulate these Principles, and promise our mutual respect, trust, and support as we enter into and live these Covenants:

• • We acknowledge our place in the interdependent web of life, with humility and efforts toward harmony.
• • We recognize both the diversity of life and the inherent worth and dignity of each life;
• • We accept and encourage one another in our free and responsible searches for truth, meaning, spiritual growth, and loving actions;
• • We support the right of conscience and the use of inclusive democratic processes within our congregations and in society at large;
• • We practice justice, equity, and compassion in all our relationships;
• • We work to dismantle systemic oppressions, including racism, in ourselves and our institutions;
• • We give generously of our attention, time, talents and resources, as we adapt with the changing world.
• • We build beloved diverse communities, with the goal of world community with peace, liberty and justice for all.

Section C-2.3 Inspirations. Grateful for the religious pluralism which enriches and ennobles our faith, we are inspired to deepen our understanding and expand our vision. The living tradition which we share draws from many sources, including but not limited to:

• • Direct experience of life and that transcending mystery and wonder, affirmed in all cultures, which moves us to a renewal of the spirit and an openness to the forces which create and uphold life;
• • Words and deeds of people which challenge us to confront powers and structures of evil with justice, compassion, and the transforming power of love;
• • Wisdom from the world’s religions and spiritual teachings which inspires us in our ethical and spiritual life, including calls to love ourselves and our neighbors, and to live in harmony with the rhythms of nature;
• • Teachings which counsel us to heed the guidance of reason and the results of science, and warn us that there can be both idolatries of the mind and spirit;
• • Listening deeply to each other’s experiences and how we draw upon a wide variety of sources to live our Principles and Covenants.

Section C-2.4. Inclusion. Systems of power, privilege, and oppression have traditionally created barriers for persons and groups with particular identities, ages, abilities, and histories. We pledge to replace such barriers with ever-widening circles of solidarity and mutual respect. We strive to be an association of congregations that truly welcome all persons and commit to structuring congregational and associational life in ways that empower and enhance everyone’s participation.

Section C-2.5. Freedom of Belief. Individual freedom of belief and right of conscience are inherent in Unitarian Universalism. Congregations may establish any statement of purpose, covenant, or terms of membership, so long as they do not require that members adhere to a particular creed.

With Editing Marks:

Section C-2. 2 1. Purposes. The Unitarian Universalist Association shall devote its resources to and exercise its corporate organizational powers for religious, educational**,** and humanitarian purposes. The primary purpose of the Association is to serve the needs of its member congregations, organize new congregations, extend and strengthen Unitarian Universalist institutions and implement its principles. The Association fosters freedom of belief and actively supports its members to transform their beliefs into loving actions.

Section C-2.1 2. Principles and Covenants. We, the member congregations of the Unitarian Universalist Association, articulate these principles, and promise our mutual respect, trust and support as we enter into and live these Covenants: to affirm and promote

• - (7  1) Respect for the interdependent web of all existence of which we are a part. We acknowledge our place in the interdependent great web of life, with humility and stewardship for efforts toward harmony. to protect our earth and all its forms of life.
• • (1 2) The We recognize both the diversity of life and the inherent worth and dignity of every person each life;
• • (3&4  3) Acceptance of one another We accept and encouragement to spiritual growth in our congregations; one another in our free and responsible searches for truth**,** and meaning, spiritual growth, and loving actions;
• • (5 4) The We support the right of conscience and the use of the inclusive democratic processes within our congregations and in society at large;
• • (2 5) Justice, We practice justice, equity**,** and compassion in human relations all our relationships;
• • (8 6) Journeying toward spiritual wholeness by working to build a diverse multicultural Beloved Community, by our with actions that accountably We work to dismantle racism and other oppressions systemic oppressions, including racism, in ourselves and our institutions;
• • (new 7) We give generously of our attention, time, talents and resources, as we adapt with the changing world.
• • (6 8) The We build beloved diverse communities, towards the goal of world community with peace, liberty and justice for all.

Section C-2.3 Inspirations. Grateful for the religious pluralism which enriches and ennobles our faith, we are inspired to deepen our understanding and expand our vision. The living tradition which we share draws from many sources**, including but not limited to**:

• • (1) Direct experience of life and that transcending mystery and wonder, affirmed in all cultures, which moves us to a renewal of the spirit and an openness to the forces which create and uphold life;
• • (2) Words and deeds of prophetic people which challenge us to confront powers and structures of evil with justice, compassion**,** and the transforming power of love;
• • (3, 4 & 6 3) Wisdom from the world’s religions and spiritual teachings which inspires us in our ethical and spiritual life**, including calls to love our neighbors as ourselves ourselves and our neighbors, and to live in harmony with the rhythms of nature;**
• - Jewish and Christian teachings which call us to respond to God’s love by loving our neighbors as ourselves;
• • (5 4) Humanist teachings Teachings which counsel us to heed the guidance of reason and the results of science, and warn us against that there can be idolatries of both the mind and spirit;
• - Spiritual teachings of Earth-centered traditions which celebrate the sacred circle of life and instruct us to live in harmony with the rhythms of nature.
• • (new 5) Listening deeply to each other’s experiences and how we draw upon a wide variety of sources to live our Principles and Covenants.

As free congregations we enter into this covenant, promising to one another our mutual trust and support.

Section C-2.3 4. Inclusion. Systems of power, privilege, and oppression have traditionally created barriers for persons and groups with particular identities, ages, abilities, and histories. We pledge to replace such barriers with ever-widening circles of solidarity and mutual respect. We strive to be an association of congregations that truly welcome all persons and commit to structuring congregational and associational life in ways that empower and enhance everyone’s participation.

Section C-2. 4 5. Freedom of Belief. Nothing herein shall be deemed to infringe upon the individual Individual freedom of belief which is and right of conscience are inherent in the Universalist and Unitarian heritages Unitarian Universalism. or to conflict with Congregations may establish any statement of purpose, covenant, or bond of union terms of membership, used by any congregation unless such is used as a creedal test so long as they do not require that members adhere to a particular creed.

What is the reason for your amendment idea?

REASON: “IS COMPROMISE POSSIBLE?” As one of the delegates for my Fellowship, I’ve felt torn between my own somewhat positive reaction to elements of the Proposed Revision vs. the fairly consistent and strong negative reactions of Fellowship members and friends. I worked with them on Amendments of the Proposed Revision. But at the end, I realized I should at least try coming at the problem from the opposite direction: Start with our beloved Principles and Sources, then look for minimal changes that might still somehow satisfy the Commission’s Charge.

Here’s how I interpret the Commission’s Charge: “Enable us to be a relevant and powerful force for spiritual growth, healing and justice, now and into the future, while honoring our historic roots. Include the following: Love in action, All beings, the 8th Principle, and more and/or broader Sources.”

Here’s how I tried to satisfy this stream-lined interpretation of the Charge:

In Purposes, I added a single sentence that I believe summarizes what I want UUA to do: “foster freedom of belief and support its members to transform those beliefs into loving actions.” (I included the word “loving” in order to answer the Charge, even though some of my members didn’t like it.)

I re-titled the Principles section to be “Principles and Covenants.” The edited intro statement now talks both about “articulating Principles” and “entering into Covenants.” To describe how we enter into the Covenants, I took some of the words that are currently at the bottom of the Sources and added the word “respect,” so it reads “promise our mutual respect, trust, and support as we enter into and live these Covenants.” I don’t use the word “accountability,” because I feel that if we respect, trust and support each other in our Covenants, that is the degree to which we can expect ourselves to be accountable.

I re-formatted all of the Principles in the form “We (verb)” in order to feel more active and accountable.

I re-ordered the Principles in a way that I hope places both “All beings” and the 8th Principle in appropriate context: (1) I suggest the Interdependent Web now be the first principle (with some concepts added from the Proposed Revision – humility and efforts toward harmony). (2) Then the former 1st Principle would be next, but revised with a nod to the Value of pluralism: “We recognize both the diversity of life and the inherent worth and dignity of each life.” (3) I combined the Current 3rd and 4th principles, listing the current “searches“ of “truth, meaning, spiritual growth,” and adding “loving actions.” (Again, I used the word “loving” to meet the Charge.) (4) I added the word “inclusive” to democratic “processes” in the democracy Principle; (5) Right after democracy, I thought it made sense to have the “justice, equity and compassion” Principle, and then it readily flows into the next Principle, (6) a shortened version “the 8th Principle.” (7) In part since the anti-oppression Principle is such hard work, I next added a new Principle that combines the values of Generosity and Transformation from the Proposed Revision: “We give generously of our attention, time, talents and resources as we adapt with the changing world.” (8) And I still want to end with a Principle that concludes “the goal of world community with peace, liberty and justice for all,” but I think it should be preceded by phrase similar to what is in the Proposed Revision, “We build beloved diverse communities, with the goal of . . . ” Again, some in my Fellowship don’t like the word “beloved,” but I included it to address the Charge.

I made the Sources into the Inspiration Section, as was done in the Proposed Revision, but I retained the list that so many of us love and use. I added the language “not limited to” to show that it’s not intended to be an exhaustive list. I tried to decrease the specificity of the list, by combining three of them (World religion, Jewish and Christian and Earth-centered) into one category of “World religions and spiritual teachings.” I removed the religious word “prophetic.” I took out the too-specific word “Humanist” and modified the rest of the wording to be a little less controversial: “there can be idolatries of both the mind and the spirit.” Most importantly to me, I included a new Source of “listening deeply to each other’s experiences of how we draw upon a wide variety of sources to live into our principles and covenants.” I think it is only through this kind of listening that we will be able to keep our “Living Tradition” alive! I also added “life” to direct experience, partly because that’s what my familiarity with Zen Buddhism tells me to do.

The Current Inclusion Section does not need to be modified. It is already a strong statement.

Changes I made to the Freedom of Belief Section are very similar to those proposed in the Commission’s Revision. However, my Fellowship’s members wanted to clarify that Freedom of Belief is not just a heritage, it is a current feature of UU, and that “bonds of union” should be changed to something less oppressive, like “terms of membership.”

Have you discussed this idea with your congregation or other UUs?

FEEDBACK: I spent a lot of time reviewing other posts on this discussion website, looking at the UUA website, and the Fifth Principle Project website. I feel that has been a form of “feedback” for my work. Also, our Fellowship had a straw poll indicating a slim majority would prefer to keep Article II as it is. After writing many Amendments of the Proposed Revision to try to combine all of our voices, I realized I should at least try amending the Current Principles and Sources. But by the time I realized I wanted to do that, the April 30 deadline was here. So I was only able to give my Fellowship 2 days to review a written draft of this Amendment, and I only had 1 day to offer the next draft to our sister Congregation to the North. I also offered a time for my Fellowship to discuss the Amendment during and after Service on April 30. That discussion resulted in quite a few more changes until all of us felt comfortable that the Charge had been met. That doesn’t mean they all necessarily agreed with the Charge, but they felt it had been met. Whew!

[KLusignan (Kerry Lusignan)]

Thanks for all your and your congregation’s thought and hard work. A similar approach was tried by some of us around the time of the final feedback sessions, and three compromise versions were posted in an open and public Facebook group (Blue Boat Passengers) created to continue these conversations and share information. Two of us, Tim Bartik and I, went on to propose some intermingled amendments here (I just did one, on the Sources section, with the participation of my congregation).

My suggestion in order that the work of your congregation be considered as amendments (rather than a comment) and hopefully be proposed, is to break this down into sections, and post each one as a comment to an amendment taking a similar approach. As I understand the purpose now, it is to foster wider discussion, combination, and reconciliation between various individuals’ and congregations’ proposals, as we narrow down the amendments before GA.

My congregation’s Sources/Inspirations amendment is #460. Also, @Janet’s congregation took my earliest draft and workshopped it to create their own amendment, posted here as #147. If you look in the Inspirations section, you will see that much discussion is taking place already among people seeking various approaches to retaining and/or reworking some of our Sources material in the Inspirations section.

I believe @TimBartik has multiple amendments in different sections, and I know there are other amendments that take an approach of trying to combine the current Article II with the proposed revisions (in fact, the last draft of proposed revisions to Article II, to my mind, took this approach in the Values/Principles section, but not in the Sources/Inspirations section).

[klsteb2 (Kara Stebbins)]

Thanks for your suggestions, Kerry!

I have read a lot of posts, but it is challenging for me to figure out how to interact more in this virtual environment. (I’m pretty old school - I’ve never even been on facebook!)

I will do my best to connect with others who have similar ideas, starting with those you suggest.

I am also signed up for all 3 of the workshops!

[klsteb2 (Kara Stebbins)]

I’m sure it’s bad form to reply to my own post, but I wanted to add a new thought to it based on some other posts I’ve read about including both Principles and Values:

Maybe we could articulate Principles & Covenants as in my original post, but then add a paragraph at the end that makes the Values contained in them explicit. It results in a longer Value list than what’s in the Proposed Revision. But because it emerges from the Principles, I feel it expresses the values we actually share more accurately and completely:

Section C-2.2. Principles, Covenants, and Values. We, the member congregations of the Unitarian Universalist Association, articulate these Principles, and promise our mutual respect, trust, and support as we live these Covenants:

• We acknowledge our place in the interdependent web of existence, with humility and efforts toward harmony.
• We recognize both the diversity of life and the inherent worth and dignity of each life;
• We accept and encourage one another in free and responsible searching for truth, meaning, spiritual growth, and loving actions;
• We support the right of conscience and the use of inclusive democratic processes within our congregations and in society at large;
• We practice justice, equity, and compassion in all our relationships;
• We work to be aware of and dismantle systemic oppressions, including racism, in ourselves and our institutions;
• We give generously of our attention, time, talents and resources, as we adapt with the changing world.
• We build beloved diverse communities, with the goal of world community with peace, freedom and justice for all.

Articulating and re-articulating these Principles and Covenants is part of what makes ours a living tradition. The process helps us identify and express some of the Value words that currently capture how we want to connect in community: Interdependence, Humility, Diversity, Searching, Conscience, Democracy, Equity, Compassion, Awareness, Giving, Adaptation, Peace, Freedom, and Justice.

[BekWheeler]

I like this very very much. Builds ACTIONS into each articulation and weaves together aspects of the Proposed Values with the core of our Principles. This is wonderful!

Bek Wheeler, Newport News, VA

[KHyde (Katherine Hyde)]

@Poster1

We recognize both the diversity of life and the inherent worth and dignity of each life;

Agree with @BekWheeler, I like the approach in @klsteb2 's May 10 post.

I might phrase the second Principle & Covenant a little differently, something like:

“We recognize both the diversity of life and the inherent worthiness and dignity of every person”–
That’s a bit awkward, but here’s my thought:

(1) “Worthiness” is less familiar than “worth,” but it piques interest, conveying in a gentle way the Study Commission’s insight into how to reflect engagement with 8th-Principle ideas of justice and equity.

(2) “Diversity of life” is somewhat poetic and hard to express in a more “plain English” way, but I like it anyway! Some poetry is good; gives us things to ponder.

(3) On “every person” versus “each life,” I’d go with the former. Again, as with my point (1), it reflects in a subtle way the particularity of the Study Commission’s insights.

[klsteb2 (Kara Stebbins)]

Thanks for the reply @Khyde.

Building on what you wrote:

For some reason I think it helps it feel a little less awkward if we switch the order of “worthiness and dignity” to “dignity and worthiness”?

As to the “each life” vs. “every person,” that’s a longer conversation.

I was trying to satisfy what I understood as the UUA’s Charge to focus on All beings (bottom of page 7 of the Study Commission report). (I agree that the Commission didn’t necessarily follow through on that focus. They put Interdependence first, and humility and repairing damage. But in Pluralism it is already clear that it is we humans who are considered sacred beings.)

I know some folks who want more emphasis on All beings and less emphasis on humans - and others who feel exactly the opposite.

I might be ok either way, as long as the word “humility” stays in as a reminder that we are just one species in the interdependent web. Although my PREFERENCE is still to have the parallel structure (and meaning) of “diversity of life” and “dignity of each life.”

If it does say specifically “person,” would it help to reduce the number of syllables by saying “each person” instead of “every person”? (So it would increase the number of syllables from “worth” to “worthiness,” but decrease the number of syllables from “every” to “each.”) Or would that lose some important subtlety of meaning?

Or maybe it could say “each human life”? That way it would keep the parallel structure and specify humans.

I don’t know, the more I play with it, the more strongly I feel that I wish it did NOT specify humans.

I acknowledge the interdependent web of existence and the diversity of life. I am humble that I am not the only species of being, nor a superior species of being. I want to live in harmony with all of life - human life and also other life. One of the Values in an earlier version from the Commission was “Evolution.” I don’t feel strongly that we need to use the WORD “Evolution” in the document, but I am interested in our ideas being consistent with that well-supported theory. To me that means humbly acknowledging that “harmony” may include both competition and cooperation. The hungry lion wants to eat me, but I do not want to be eaten. If some of us humans want to eat cows, at least we could treat them humanely. I know I deprive vegetables of their lives every day.

That’s a long enough rant. Sorry.

[KHyde (Katherine Hyde)]

@klsteb2 Thank you, not a rant at all! I would stay with ‘every person’ as a kind of focusing-in after the phrase “diversity of life,” which I think embraces what you are saying about living in harmony with all of life. Is the word “both” needed? or maybe omit?

“Inherent dignity and worthiness” works for me. There’s a musicality with the two three-syllable nouns, in either order, that’s different from “inherent worth and dignity” but I think is there (a music person could shed light here!).

[ChrisS (G. Chris Stotler)]

Thank you for your work on this. Your suggested compromise is what we need. We need the current Principle and Sources with edits as well as some of the proposed language. This is the type of compromise proposal that we hope moves forward.

[BekWheeler]

On the issue of ‘worthiness’…
Yes, I’m a linguist professionally so I think about syntax.

Notice:

1. worth = noun
2. [ [ [worth]=noun +y]=adjective] + ness]]]=noun

So what we have in worth-i-ness is 5 letters of the root word, and 5 letters of grammatical affixes that change the root noun (worth) into an adjective (worthy) and then back to a noun (worthiness).

The sheer weight of grammatical affixes, in my eyes, diminishes the weight of the root — or rather, we have the core meaning of “worth” then two grammatical flip flops to get back to another noun. Wow… sure hope that does NOT pass.

[SMyles (Steve Myles)]

Here is what CHATgpt put out when asked to create UU principles incorporating UU Values and anti-racism** It combines the principles, with values and adds statements that incorporate anti-racism. Not that I would advocate using it as is, (it is a bit redundant) but it manages to capture just about everything we’ve been talking about.

1. The inherent worth and dignity of every person: We affirm the inherent worth and dignity of every person, and recognize that each individual has something unique and valuable to contribute to the world. We value diversity and inclusivity, and work actively to dismantle systemic racism and promote equity for all.

2. Justice, equity, and compassion in human relations: We strive to create a world characterized by justice, equity, and compassion in all human relations, and to work towards the elimination of oppression and discrimination in all forms. We value fairness and equity, and work actively to confront and dismantle systemic racism and other forms of oppression.

3. Acceptance of one another and encouragement to spiritual growth: We welcome people of all beliefs and encourage spiritual growth and exploration, recognizing that each person’s path is unique. We value openness and curiosity, and work actively to create communities that are welcoming and supportive of all people, regardless of their race or ethnicity.

4. A free and responsible search for truth and meaning: We believe that each person must find their own path to truth and meaning, and that this search should be free from coercion or dogma. We value intellectual curiosity and freedom, and work actively to create communities that encourage lifelong learning and growth, while also addressing systemic racism and other forms of oppression through education and action.

5. The right of conscience and the use of the democratic process: We affirm the right of conscience and support democratic processes in society and in our communities. We value democracy and fairness, and work actively to address and dismantle systemic racism through advocacy, activism, and community organizing.

6. The goal of world community with peace, liberty, and justice for all: We envision a world characterized by peace, liberty, and justice for all, and seek to work towards this goal through advocacy, activism, and community service. We value compassion and service, and work actively to dismantle systemic racism and other forms of oppression through community organizing and direct action.

7. Respect for the interdependent web of all existence of which we are a part: We recognize the interconnectedness of all living beings and the importance of caring for the earth and its resources for future generations. We value sustainability and environmentalism, and work actively to address and dismantle the ways in which systemic racism and other forms of oppression contribute to environmental degradation and harm.

[uurutland (Herbert Ogden)]

I agree about “worthiness.” The extra syllables add nothing important to UUism.

[Sally (Sally G)]

“No” to worthiness. I had to look it up to convince myself that it was not a coined word; too unfamiliar.

[dickburkhart]

Thoughtful wording for revising our principles. However, for the one on racism and oppression, I’d suggest something broader and more like a principle: “We transcend the discords of identity, nurturning a more just and equitable world”.

[Crosenbaum (Claire Rosenbaum)]

Hi Kara -
I really like your “compromise” for the most part.

One suggestion is to keep our first principle where it is, rewording like this: “We recognize the inherent worth and dignity of every person and celebate the diversity and uniqueness of all life.”

That seems to lead more naturally into the interdependent web and our (humans) place in it.

For me, my attraction to UUism was this statement of the “inherent worth and dignity of every person” My daughter with significant disabilites has been considered NOT to have INHERENT worth in so many other settings and even faith communities. I would really hate to see this principle to lose primacy by being relegated to a subsidiary phrase in a second principle.

Still, thanks for everything else – I like the compromise and simpler language.

[BekWheeler]

@Crosenbaum

We recognize the inherent worth and dignity of every person and celebate the diversity and uniqueness of all life.”

Wonderful casting of the worth and dignity… keeping it in central focus. Really nice revision!.

[member1990 (Julie Welch)]

Claire Rosenbaum directed my breakout session to @KaraStebbins amendment after the UUA zoom session on 5/18. After reviewing this, I fully support this amendment, with @ClaireRosenbaum’s suggested wording for inherent worth and dignity. Thank you for creating this thoughtful compromise.

[Crosenbaum (Claire Rosenbaum)]

Kara -
Several others also like this version. You may need to submit an amendment for each section, but it woudl be important to note when you do that they are part of a whole rewrite. Not sure how to do that.

[klsteb2 (Kara Stebbins)]

Thanks for all your comments.

Here is my re-write, trying to incorporate some of your comments for Section C2-2.

Section C-2.2. Principles, Covenants, and Values. We, the member congregations of the Unitarian Universalist Association, articulate these Principles, and promise our mutual respect, trust, and support as we live these Covenants:

• We acknowledge our place in the interdependent web of existence, with humility and efforts toward harmony.
• We recognize the inherent worth and dignity of every person and celebrate the diversity and uniqueness of all life;
• We accept and encourage one another in free and responsible searching for truth, meaning, spiritual growth, and loving actions;
• We support the right of conscience and the use of inclusive democratic processes within our congregations and in society at large;
• We practice justice, equity, and compassion in all our relationships;
• We work to be aware of and learn how to dismantle systemic oppressions, including racism, in ourselves and our institutions;
• We give generously of our attention, time, talents and resources, as we adapt with the changing world.
• We build beloved diverse communities, with the goal of world community with peace, freedom and justice for all.

Articulating and re-articulating these Principles and Covenants is part of what makes ours a living tradition. The process helps us identify and express some of the Value words that currently capture how we want to connect in community: Interdependence, Humility, Diversity, Searching, Conscience, Democracy, Equity, Compassion, Awareness, Learning, Giving, Adaptation, Peace, Freedom, and Justice.

[Sally (Sally G)]

well done

IDK how they are defining a single amendment; we probably need to get clarity on that so that we can ensure proper submissions, not having things tossed on technicalities