#147 | Janet Leavens | Add Depth, Breadth, and Specificity

@Janet

The original sentence in the Commission’s proposal is clearly referring to cultural appropriation. Those who read it otherwise are misunderstanding it. And I’m confident that way of reading it is an outlier among UUs.

To @EmilyinMA 's point, the qualifier is in the previous sentence. ““We respect the histories, contexts, and cultures in which they were created and are currently practiced”” is clearly referencing “we use and are inspired by sacred and secular understanding that help us to live into our values.” When taken in context it clearly isn’t referring to any sources or traditions that are counter to our UU values as it explicitly states that "we use and are inspired by sacred and secular understandings that help us live into our values." When we are making use of these sacred and secular understandings, the ones that help us Iive into our values, we need to “respect the histories, contexts, and cultures in which they were created and are currently practiced.”

None of your suggested revisions are as clear in addressing cultural appropriation. In my opinion, there are many more UUs who will want that wording to remain than those you’ve heard from who want it removed or softened. I’m sharing this because I feel there is a lot of good in your suggested amendment. I don’t think it has any chance of passing unless you keep the sentence "“We respect the histories, contexts, and cultures in which they were created and are currently practiced.” If taking that out or rewording that is as important to you as everything else in your amendment then remove or alter it. But if it’s more important to you to have your list of 4 sources have a chance of being added to Article 2 it’s my informed guess that not including ““We respect the histories, contexts, and cultures in which they were created and are currently practiced”” will keep people who might otherwise support your amendment from voting for it. I hope this is helpful.

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Hi Cynthia,

In the current iteration of the amendment, science is not actually singled out as being rational or the only form of rational inquiry. In fact, this is very important to me and why I insisted on not just referring to “science” and “mathematics,” but more broadly to “communities of … rational inquiry.” This is not something just left to experts. This is a process everyone can and does engage in. We are doing it right here on this thread. We do this whenever we try to explain something to someone or when we get together and try to solve problems we might have. You have just been rational in explaining your view to me. Churches are (obviously) spaces where our spiritual and emotional lives are nurtured both collectively and as individuals, but they are also institutions confronted with practical problems, with budgets, with limited resources, or rather with funds to invest, so coming together and respectfully engaging in rational inquiry is quite productive way of dealing with those problems or opportunities.

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Hi Revlev,

I completely understand what the A2SC was trying to do with these two sentences and for those steeped in critical social justice, the meaning is clear. However, many UUs in the pews, not to mention newcomers to our religion do not share this perspective. It is quite possible that since you are personally heavily involved in social justice (I am assuming), your UU circle might be somewhat skewed (ministers, social justice committee members, repeat GA delegates).

In my congregation, we had discussions about the A2SC revisions in which 35 people participated and I can say that although a few people expressed support of these two sentences in the inspirations statement, the sentiment was generally negative.

We could add in something that replaces “that helps us live into our values,” which together with “seek to understand and appreciate” would bring our amendment more closely in line with the original A2SC version.

However, insisting that the A2SC wording remain completely unchanged here feels rigid and ideological to me.

Finally, I realize that many UUs are very concerned about cultural appropriation, and it is a worthy cause, but to be frank there are other very important concerns when it comes to our sources. Do we care about the fact that a famous writer was recently the victim of an assassination attempt by religious authorities? Just one example.

ETA: I just looked back at our amendment and I actually think it does a much better job of articulating the meaning of “sacred and secular understandings that help us live into our values.” This sentence is overly abstract and uninspiring. In its place we offer more concrete, inspirational language. Plus the rewording of “respect the histories …” with “seek to understand and appreciate the histories …” is a good faith attempt at compromise.

I do sincerely hope that you will sign on with our amendment, but I will most certainly understand if you choose not to.

@Janet
Just sharing my perspective to help your amendment have, in my humble and limited opinion, a chance of passing.

I’m not being rigid or ideological when I suggest not changing the A2SC wording of the sentence ““We respect the histories, contexts, and cultures in which they were created and are currently practiced”” I just haven’t seen you offer anything that is, in my opinion, better than that wording so I think you would be better off keeping the original wording.

Of course, I have no way of knowing for sure whether my sense of where the majority of UUs land in relation to that sentence is correct. Obviously, I could be completely wrong. That’s why we will have a vote on some of these amendments, the ones that get the most support prior to voting, in “the primaries” as it were, and on the A2SC proposal as amended.

I’m also not suggesting that all of the A2SC wording remain completely unchanged. I’m suggesting that if you want to succeed in changing the A2SC wording – adding in your statements about sources to include the current 1st source, religions and wisdom traditions, humanist teachings and scientific inquiry, and the creative arts – you might be more successful if you leave in the sentence, ““We respect the histories, contexts, and cultures in which they were created and are currently practiced””

Again, I could be completely wrong about that. I’m sharing this because I like some of what you’re proposing in other parts of this submission but I would not currently vote for it as is and I don’t think others will either but that they might if you kept in ““We respect the histories, contexts, and cultures in which they were created and are currently practiced”” Could be completely wrong about that. Just my two cents offered in a spirit of appreciation for what you’ve proposed.

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Just practically speaking, we can’t include that phrase because we no longer have the antecedent sentence that gives it the context, as you pointed out. The meaning of the antecedant sentence, as I have explained above, is spread out over the body of our amendment. Instead of merely saying “that help us live into our values,” we show that we more concrete language. Again, this language replaces the first sentence, so we can’t merely add the first sentence back in. And we can’t include the “respect the histories …” sentence without that precisely because it doesn’t have that context.

There is probably some way of fixing that, but it would involve a major overhaul of the amendment and I only have a few hours left to work on this. Besides we have already been receiving support for it as is.

Thank you very much for your comment and for taking the time to share your thoughts on this thread. I am loving this process and to be honest (and I hope Kerry doesn’t mind me saying this) I am less concerned with the amendment passing than I am with doing what I think is right while at the same time representing my congregation.

@Janet and @CSTownsend and @LeilaniDavenberry and @ktschurr and @EmilyinMA and @RevLev ., I’m going to take a look in the morning when I’m more fresh, but Cynthia and I and our other delegates are three hours behind you, Janet, so hopefully I will be early enough.

At first glance, it seems that Cynthia may be linking the “rational” word and its associations more to science and other hard data fields, while Janet is linking it backwards to the earlier part of the sentence as well, to humanism–to philosophy, for example, or critical thinking in many fields of academia, not only the sciences or math. But Cynthia makes a valid point that “rational” in this source might be construed as casting a shadow other the other sources, implying they are “irrational.”

It didn’t strike me personally this way; rather I felt each phrase is trying to list what is best and distinctive in each source. So, for example, having “joy” and “solace” in the Arts doesn’t necessarily mean we don’t also draw these from the world religions (I sure hope we do!).

“Rational” may not be the right exact word yet. But to repeat something I said in one of our congregation’s Article II meetings, language is infinitely flexible: there are never just two ways to say something–there are a million. I know we are running short on time, but I believe if we try to pinpoint the essence of the conflicting concerns and then keep brainstorming words and phrases, we might hit on the right compromise.

So please correct whatever I have misunderstood. I’m trying to get at the main points, not the details of the arguments yet, as this might help us hone in more quickly.

The religious and cultures language (both in the religions source and in the introductory and closing parts) has very complex issues and components, of course. Would I be right to say that three of the main issues here are:

(1) General respect for all religions, both honoring where we draw wisdom from and asserting that we welcome all and respect each person’s freedom to find their own path, (2) acknowledgement of the harm and abuse that has been enacted in religion’s name, so therefore making sure we don’t imply a wholesale acceptance of all religions’ practices or misuses, and (3) the cultural appropriation and antiracism/anticolonialism aspect of this language, which RevLev felt was better expressed in the omitted phrase he wants restored, and which also informs Leilani’s analysis of this language?

If not, or if that’s not completely right, please let me know, everybody.

I agree, Janet, that, let’s call it, “not a wholesale acceptance of religion” is important. As noted, this was also raised in our congregation previously, hence the “discerning” language was added. However, trying to find the right language for race and culture issues is important and prioritized not only for its intrinsic value but also because the Commission was charged to make antiracism a focus, and this has previously been validated by delegates as well.

Please let me know if my first-glance analyses are off-base or in the neighborhood, and then I’ll try to read more deeply tomorrow and maybe brainstorm language ideas.

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Hi - I am looking for words to acknowledge the inherent wisdom in each and all. When we look outside of our “knowledge” it should be balanced with our individual “knowing” and contribution in side ourselves and from nature. Please consider my amendment to add…

“We draw upon our experience of creation, nature, wonder and the inherent wisdom of each and all.”

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Can you tell me more about what sounds like your preference to keep the exact wording you quoted?

Re the sentences under discussion, I deleted “understandings that help us live into our values” early on, because I believe “live into” will date too quickly, though I appreciate the sentiment. I also think it’s very clear to many people who use this vocabulary, but to others, may also sound buzz-wordy, and as Janet said, not clear. So as well as removing the antecedent, we removed a qualifier that per @RevLev should make it clear we are not implying a wholesale acceptance here (though not sure that is as clear to everyone as it is to you).

Maybe these two goals could be better served by trying to uncouple the “Janus” thoughts? (trying to go two directions at once). Maybe one sentence needs to be a clear, unequivocal statement about respect and against cultural appropriation, and a separate sentence can serve the purpose of negating wholesale acceptance. I’ve personally never been that crazy about “mindful of the cultures . . .” as I think this also may come across as buzz-wordy and abstract.

Also, I’ll try something similar with the science/rationalism sentence by shifting it around a bit.

Maybe something like this? A rough draft, but I’ll bold newly added or restored language:

"As Unitarian Universalists, we are inspired by the full depth and breadth of sacred and secular human knowledge. We respect the histories, contexts, and cultures in which the wisdom we draw upon was created and is currently practiced. With care and compassion for every person’s individual path, we discern and build upon the sources of Unitarian Universalism as we move forward.

These sources include:

Direct experience of that transcending mystery and wonder, affirmed in all cultures, which renews our spirit;

Religions and wisdom traditions which inspire us in our ethical and spiritual life and which center love, justice, and harmony with one another and with nature;

Humanist teachings, which counsel us to honor our capacity for rational inquiry, as well as the verifiable knowledge produced by communities engaged in scientific and other data-driven fields of study;

Creative arts, which reveal to us the face of life’s beauty and joy, its struggles and sorrows, and its enduring truth and meaning, and which open our hearts to emotions of joy, solace, and gratitude.

These sources ground us and sustain us in ordinary, difficult, and joyous times. Grateful for the religious and cultural ancestries we inherit and the diversity that enriches our community, we are called by our living tradition to ever deepen and expand our wisdom."

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The point of my story about visiting the different cultures didn’t really have to do with negating the experience of people who have suffered and rejected religions. It was more about the question of the word “understanding.” See my longer, previous post for my latest efforts to reconcile these issues.

@KLusignan
I don’t think I can explain it any more clearly than what I state above in my previous post (see below).

The original sentence in the Commission’s proposal is clearly referring to cultural appropriation. Those who read it otherwise are misunderstanding it. And I’m confident that way of reading it is an outlier among UUs.

To EmilyinMA 's point, the qualifier is in the previous sentence. ““We respect the histories, contexts, and cultures in which they were created and are currently practiced”” is clearly referencing “we use and are inspired by sacred and secular understanding that help us to live into our values.” When taken in context it clearly isn’t referring to any sources or traditions that are counter to our UU values as it explicitly states that "we use and are inspired by sacred and secular understandings that help us live into our values." When we are making use of these sacred and secular understandings, the ones that help us Iive into our values, we need to “respect the histories, contexts, and cultures in which they were created and are currently practiced.”

None of your suggested revisions are as clear in addressing cultural appropriation. In my opinion, there are many more UUs who will want that wording to remain than those you’ve heard from who want it removed or softened. I’m sharing this because I feel there is a lot of good in your suggested amendment. I don’t think it has any chance of passing unless you keep the sentence "“We respect the histories, contexts, and cultures in which they were created and are currently practiced.” If taking that out or rewording that is as important to you as everything else in your amendment then remove or alter it. But if it’s more important to you to have your list of 4 sources have a chance of being added to Article 2 it’s my informed guess that not including ““We respect the histories, contexts, and cultures in which they were created and are currently practiced”” will keep people who might otherwise support your amendment from voting for it. I hope this is helpful.

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What I am gleaning from this conversation is that "“We respect the histories, contexts, and cultures in which they were created and are currently practiced”” is a code phrase - commonly accepted shorthand for a land acknowledgement or reference to cultural appropriation. So, I can see that it might be important at GA, especially since GA has an over-representation of clergy who have been steeped in this kind of language.

I’m fine with that phrase, and the topic is crucial. I do think that plain language is preferable to jargon, but, we are all compromising here. The outcome that would be deal breaker for me, personally, is no amendment on Inspirations.

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@RevLev, I understand.

Did you look at my longer posts with questions and suggested language? Below, I’ll post that sentence again. It’s modified slightly to fix the antecedent problem. By using “wisdom,” I hope that makes clear what you explained and what I gleaned from @LeilaniDavenberry ‘s comments above–that we take good things from others’ cultures, incorporate and then sort of claim them as if we created them.

The second sentence adds a few words to try to further discriminate and validate both these issues–that we respect, acknowledge and do not appropriate the traditions, but we also acknowledge that some have been harmed by religions. Our continued path forward, together, honors all these components of our members’ lived experience. Here is the reworked paragraph, with some bolding for new words:

“As Unitarian Universalists, we are inspired by the full depth and breadth of sacred and secular human knowledge. We respect the histories, contexts, and cultures in which the wisdom we draw upon was created and is currently practiced. With care and compassion for every person’s individual path, we discern and build upon the sources of Unitarian Universalism as we move forward.”

@EmilyinMA what do you think? Not sure if the others are around right now, but do you have reactions to/suggestions for modifying or replacing my suggested language above?

@CSTownsend what do you think? I didn’t delete “rational” but I reframed it to our individual capacity for the sort of fact-finding, rational process that @Janet explained above, and which may be important to our humanist members, and which, as Janet points out, is a process we are engaging in right now, doing our best to use our reason to listen, understand, and respond to one another as we engage in a communal truth-seeking endeavor.

I separated this word “rational” (could also use “reasoned”) from the scientific inquiry part. I tried to spell out that a particular value in these fields, such as we draw on for medicine, is paying attention to the results we get from the world when we ask questions of it (“data-driven,” for example, ethically controlled and peer-reviewed studies, etc.). “Data-driven” is kind of dry and clunky though. Maybe Marion of our congregation, who also wanted science included, would have better ideas!

PS: Some have missed the prophetic language. We have cited the religions and traditions and individual experiences, but have left out prophetic voices that some have called out as vital for advancing justice in the world. I think if we wanted to reincorporate that element, and maybe balance the length of the second cited source more with the following ones, we could maybe do something like this?

“Religions and wisdom traditions and prophetic leaders which inspire us in our ethical and spiritual life and which center love, justice, and harmony with one another and with nature;”

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@KLusignan
So much to discuss here and I don’t have much time to give to this. I’ll try and apologies for any clumsiness.

I’m asking myself if I am “inspired by the full depth and breadth of.” For me that sounds more like what others are objecting to in the current proposal from the commission, that we are inspired even by parts of traditions that are misogynistic, homophobic, etc, which I don’t get from the current proposal from the commission. Also, you’ve taken out “that help us live into our values” which is the important clarifier in the current proposal from the commission that lets me know we are only inspired by some parts of the traditions we draw from. Also, you’ve removed “use.” We aren’t just inspired by multiple sources, we make use of them, of their ideas, their practices, rituals, etc. And since we make use of them we need to covenant to “respect the histories, contexts, and cultures in which they were created and are currently practiced.” As UUs are track record on that, on not engaging in harmful cultural appropriation, is spotty at best. We need to do better and we need to covenant to do better in this document. So, if you said, As Unitarian Universalists, we use, and are inspired by the full depth and breadth of sacred and secular [human knowledge or understandings] that help us to live into our values. We respect the histories, contexts, and cultures in which they were created and are currently practiced." then it works for me.

And let me try to explain my context and thinking a bit more in general and how that relates to these kinds of questions.

First of all, I’m one of those people who like the Inspirations section as it is in the commission’s version. It’s clear that many people want a more specific naming of the sources in the Inspiration section, whether that’s a majority of people or not I don’t know but it’s possible I may be an outlier in liking it how it is. I don’t mind more specifics from the current sources being added but I don’t need that. I would consider a proposed amendment like Janet’s because it adds something new, a new source of the the creative arts. I could vote for a proposal that adds something new like that but not if it doesn’t adequately address cultural appropriation, which so far, for me, only the commission’s version does adequately enough. The inclusion of the creative arts, in the end, isn’t that important to me. I would love to have it named but as a UU I already make use of the creative arts as a source despite the fact that they aren’t named in the current Sources. This is the problem with the current Sources that has the commission not naming them specifically in the first place, they have never been comprehensive. So I’m not going to vote for something that excludes something we as UUs need to focus on, not engaging in cultural appropriation, for the naming of a source, the creative arts, that UUs are already using and will continue to use whether it’s named in Article 2 or not. I would love to add that but not at the cost of losing other important parts of the Inspirations section. If I’m going to vote for an amendment to Article 2 that includes more specific mention of the sources it needs to be (1) more concise than the current sources, (2) &/or add something new and important, (3) with well-crafted wording that flows at least as well as the commission’s version, and (4) not lose any of the parts of the commission’s proposal that are important to me.

I think this submission idea portal has a risk of being somewhat of an echo chamber. UUs who are happy with the commission’s proposal aren’t likely to spend much (ar any) of their time commenting on these suggested amendments. But they will be voting, or having their delegates representing them vote on them. So anyone proposing an amendment is lacking a crucial piece of knowledge, what is important to those who like the current proposal that needs to remain if you are going to win over their votes. If you include additions or alterations those people like but also include additions or alterations they don’t like you probably won’t have them voting for your proposed amendment.

I would love to see changes to some of the wording in the proposed revisions to Article 2. I would love to see a few tweaks here and there but overall I’m happy with it. The congregation I serve did a thorough process of soliciting feedback from the congregation about the propose revisions to Article 2. Everyone would like some tweaks here or there but a supermajority would vote for the commission’s proposal as is even with no amendments. A minority would really like to see some changes, additions like “science” that are very important to them, but also really like the commission’s proposal and would vote for it even if those amendments fail to gain the backing of a majority of delegates. So this is where I’m coming from.

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I am just coming back to this thread, so message by message.

Kerry, you hit the nail on the head when you said that by “rational,” I mean “critical thinking.” That is exactly it, but I find the phrase “critical thinking” far inferior to “rational” since it is so over-used and buzz-wordy. The idea of problem-solving is also key. How about: “Humanist teachings, which counsel us to honor verifiable knowledge produced by scientific communities as well as other communities engaged in open-minded, critical thought.”

I have found (not just on this thread) but on others as well (like Christine Denario’s “Add ‘reason’ to Values” #255) that “reason,” “rational,” and related terms and idea seemed to be disavowed or viewed with skepticism as many since they are connected with Western, imperialist, colonialist, dominant culture. I have been having an on-going discussion with someone on Christine Denario’s thread about this with this other person saying how cultures of Indigenous People’s used non-binary thinking, non-Aristotelian logic, etc. etc. And I am sure it is true that many Indigenous Peoples used metaphor, paradox, the wisdom of elders, etc. to orient themselves to the reality in which they found themselves. However, we must also recognize that their cultural context was entirely different from ours. They lived in much smaller groups, much closer to nature, in a much simpler, more stable society. We, on the other hand, live in a fully modern, or even postmodern, highly complex, highly technical, fully monetized rapidly changing society with complex legal and tax codes, IT systems to keep running, bills and salaries to pay, etc., etc.

When you live close to nature, you may simply rely on what your elders tell you in beautiful, spiritual metaphors while your learn to hunt, fish, gather, farm etc. by watching others and doing it yourself.

But that is not where we are, we are in a space that is incredibly distant from that reality and in our current context we need to think together to solve practical problems. And I believe this needs to be acknowledged.

On the question of religions, Kerry, I agree with everything you say. But the devil is in the details, as they say. While your first point “General respect for all religions … freedom to find their path.” is relatively easy to find wording for, your second point “acknowledgement of the harm and abuse that has been enacted in religion’s name” is much more difficult, because if we actually said something to that effect, it would appear negative and would also trigger controversy. This is why I think discernment language is good. It does sound a little judgmental, but that is better I think that baldy saying “we acknowledge the harm and abuse occasioned by religion.”

As for cultural appropriation, I think the issue is that there is the notion of dominant/colonized culture that is crucial for this concept. Those in the know have internalized this and know immediatedly what is meant by the first two sentences of the A2SC’s Inspirations amendments. Newcomers and UUs not up on social justice theories don’t necessarily understand that and even if they do it might not be the first thing to spring to their mind. Of course, one can always say, as RevLev did that “they are wrong” and “that is not what that means,” but that is not how language works. Meaning is always open and negotiated, not fixed in advance by one group (no matter how moral and theoretically-savvy that one group might be).

So, in order to include something about cultural appropriation, we need to either simply name the problem directly and say we seek to avoid “cultural appropriation” and if someone is confused by that, they can at least inform themselves, instead of thinking they know what is meant, but being “wrong.” Or it can be spelled out more clearly, acknowledging that UUism approaches the world from the culturally dominant position of western religion (Christianity) and thus need to take special care when celebrating non-Western religion.

@RevLev thanks for spelling out your reasoning and context. It is certainly true that our congregational context, whether a Rev. like you, a Board member like @Janet or an “ordinary UU” like me, the opinions, wishes, and wellbeing of our own congregation is probably our most immediate and persuasive context.

I should reclarify that I am the original author of this amendment in an earlier incarnation and, as you may or may have not gleaned from reading earlier comments, it was presented separately at both @Janet’s and my congregation, reworked or tweaked at both (my delegates were elected quite late, so some are only chipping in now), and then recombined and reoffered for further input, both from our own congregations, the people who workshopped several amendments in an email chain derived from the “Inspirations” workshop, and general comment here.

@Janet has offered the information in the Blue Boat Passengers Facebook group (created to continue the discussions started during the Commission’s feedback sessions) that her congregation is divided on the vote for the revisions and will vote proportionately. This was something I had suggested back when I started hearing about movements to “win” this vote, so I was delighted to find it among the suggestions Dr. Rev. Sofia Betancourt offered in the excellent delegates’ guide.

While our congregation has not taken a poll, I can tell you from my past five years’ experience that we are also divided. Indeed, we have also lost members on both sides of the issues that are at the core of the differing views about Article II and its revision. We passed the 8th Principle by a wide margin, but we did it in a way that, even though this may have contributed to a few people leaving, allowed all issues to be aired and all voices to be heard. We then continued with congregational involvement and consent as we began work to carry out the promise of the 8th Principle.

Because I have been listening widely and doing my best to understand “both” or all sides of these issues, I can share a perception that the divisions are both more far-reaching–as in affecting more and more congregations in a destructive way–and deeper, as in based on some profound, and thus far irreconcilable conflicting frameworks, than we may realize.

I understand that any group that feels confidence in its ethical position may be willing to construe that the opposition are “outliers.” You very creditably made the point that you yourself may be in the outlying group. But this is not the way I see this numbers game, either in this vote or in the larger context of congregational life. It is not merely which group may have the ethical justification, willpower, resources, and numbers to “win.” It is that a failure to try hear all voices and see if we may reach common ground, whoever may be in the minority, is not in keeping with our principles or values and at this point, the fallout may be irreversible.

Article II revisions, which we are attempting together as a living tradition, to me represent an unparalleled opportunity to bring our best minds and our best hearts to bear on this very thorny dilemma.

Thus, while I believe I have understood everything you have said so far, I am going to ask for one more clarification about the language, and if my impression that you want the language exactly as it is, with no changes, or you would not support the amendment, is accurate.

I think it was @EmilyinMA above who made a reference to the sentences being a sort of “code.” Another way to say this might be “shorthand.” In disability circles, the slogan “Nothing about us without us” could be said to be shorthand for quite a lot, and we know what it means.

In my earliest draft of proposed changes, I solicited feedback from others before submitting my feedback on all the sections. I looked at the words “dismantling racism,” which I know are seen as shorthand or code, but in different ways, by people with opposing views. I wondered if there might be less dividing language that would accomplish the same thing. I tried moving “dismantle” in front of “obstacles” (I have always hated, in a literal sense when I imagine the image, not its intended meaning, replacing obstacles with ever-widening circles.) And I used some other word with racism that I thought might represent the same wish or process without potentially triggering knee-jerk reactions from some who read this language differently. But Patrick McLaughlin kindly explained to me that this phrasing is inseparably linked from long history of antiracism work, and why, so I changed the wording back before submitting my feedback.

Here, I think I may grasp the contextual/content/historical reason for the main words you wanted added back. And its true that the “depth and breadth” language in some sense was replacing that. But is there such a reason for “live into our values”? I can understand that this phrasing is common and maybe best words to some, but to others, it isn’t, and as noted, for me, this expression can very quickly become dated, and we want these revisions to last for a while, even if we are “on time” to review again in 15 years.

Another language example. I support respecting people’s preferred pronouns and using my own to show support. I support doing this in writing as well. For e, the jury is still out on Latinx because I’ve heard mixed opinions and reasons on both sides. But for me, I will never spell folks “folx” because there is no gender association with the word folks, and for me it is fine and even an exemplary gender-neutral word.

I hope some of this is making sense. I truly want Article II revisions to be a successful effort to bring our minds, hearts, and souls closer together and cause all kinds of needed healing in UU’ism. I want to advance the goals of the new language, and respect the beauty of much of the old language. I still think we can get there, even if we are running out of time and may not have adequate time in the period offered during GA to get there. If we manage to combine, condense, and winnow it down to 40 great amendments, I would really love to see all of those presented, because that is our last chance to hear a representative, numerically tabulated weighing in of our UU siblings.

@Janet
To clarify:
What I said before is about grammar and language structure. Those who interpret ““We respect the histories, contexts and cultures in which they were created and are currently practiced” as referring to the negative aspects contained in every tradition are missing that the qualifier, the referent for that statement, is the preceding statement, “As Unitarian Universalists, we use, and are inspired by, sacred and secular understandings that help us to live into our values.” That’s what I was calling “wrong,” as in grammatically unsound. This is true whether you are familiar with the concepts informing these statements or not. It clearly expresses that the “histories, contexts, and cultures” being referred to are those of the “sacred and secular understandings” that align with our values. It clearly excludes those traditions or parts of traditions that go against our values.

@RevLev , would you have a problem with “nurture” or “sustain” rather than “help us live into” our values?

@Janet
I also just looked back at my original post and you are quoting me as saying things I didn’t say. I used the word “misunderstanding”. I never said “they are wrong” or “this is not what that means.” Please don’t refer to my statements in quotations if you are not actually quoting me.

@KLusignan
Hmm … I don’t have a problem with “nurture” or "sustain. In fact, “listen” and “nurture” are quite possibly my two very favorite words of all time, especially for expressing the values that guide my life in single words (not that I’m suggesting either of those words as one of our new UU Values, LOL!). But when I read the sentence with those substituted for “help us live into” I just don’t like it as much. I’m not sure why. Maybe because “help us live into” feels broader? Like it includes both “nurture” and “sustain” and other verbs as well. I’m not sure. Could also be just a sound thing or a word flow thing. I’m sorry. I know it seems like I’m not open to those sentences unless they are exactly the same as the commission’s version. I do really like that wording as it is so I think it’s going to be hard to find something for that section, those two sentences, that works as well for me. It’s the rest of the proposal that I could potentially get behind, though I know there are a couple of other similar proposed amendments that have been discussed and I’m not sure which one I like best. In the end, I will likely only get behind, sign on to, one of the proposed amendments around revising the Inspirations section. I hope this is helpful.

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